Revolution in Iran usually means 1979. Good luck finding somebody who knows much about that historical event. The enduring image of revolution for me and many in my generation is “tank man” from Tiananmen Square in 1989. Today, the image of “Tank Man” may be replaced by the death of “Neda.”
I’m not convinced that the detached West gets it or cares. We may pay it lip service in facebook status updates or blog comments, but when it comes to making it count, taking part in and protecting our own political processes, we don’t walk the walk.
D.W.
on Jun 22nd, 2009
@ 11:22 am:
The one encouraging aspect in this revolution is that the assorted media methods for disseminating information are playing a role in getting information out. While the govt in Iran has attempted to shut down all information leaving the country, sources like Twitter, facebook, etc are being used to keep information flowing.
To me, this represents a victory for the ability of the individual to act in the face of repression.
roger
on Jun 22nd, 2009
@ 11:32 am:
Very true, Dave. It’s becoming obvious by this display that democracy enjoys technology while draconian regimes do not.
I fear the Iran situation will be a fad for Westerners. The pictures are amazing, the plight is tremendous, but the issue is so out of touch. When George W. Bush “stole” the election, the outcry wasn’t this dramatic. In some countries, people are willing to die for their beliefs. In ours, people don’t even like to think about how things could be better. Politics is a bother for some.
Tony
on Jun 22nd, 2009
@ 12:56 pm:
Politics here and there simply aren’t comparable. So why are you doing it?
People show a lack of interest about things here, until an issue of grave importance(rare) comes along, and then a massive upheaval in government is nearly instant, because we have built and live under a somewhat decent political system compared to places like this. Our choices range from, “good”, to “not as good”. People don’t need to fight to the death for an issue here, and if they do they’re usually considered crazy.
Yes, you’re a minority when it comes to nit picking every little local political issue to death, because you’re overly interested in the political system more than most people are. Get a job in politics if you’re that fascinated, and let the rest of us enjoy our complacency and freedom our political system allows for. The point of our western lifestyle is that we don’t have to worry about things like people do in Iran. Our ancestors built this for us. It’s awesome. We don’t owe anybody for the way we live, besides the people that serve in our military and fought for it to be this way in the past, so enjoy it.
Their choices range from “holy fuck!”, to a ” small taste of freedom with a beating on the side”.
There, every election is of grave importance. It’s not feasible to compare the two Roger. As well, please stop telling your story as if you sit amongst an elite group of morally superior people. You’re a westerner too. Perhaps you should word it like, “I fear the Iran situation will be a fad for US Westerners.”
If our situation were as grave as it is there, we might be fighting to the death. Until then, relax. In your comparison between Tiananmen Square, and Neda Soltani, Neda was standing on the side of the road watching the protestors.. versus laying down in front of a tank. Although still a very tragic loss either way, not really comparable to Tiananmen Square either.
I guess I’m just finding your article missing something..
While the situation in Iran is really of global interest, I’m really not sure what your spin on things is about. We’re not interested enough in our own politics? We’re not interested enough in their politics? How is the issue so out of touch? Thats what you should write about.
It’s great that you’re writing, but instead of writing how you think we as westerners don’t care enough, write about what we can do, or write about what you’re already doing if you’re doing something about it, or just go do it. However, if you do decide to go there as a private citizen or by via a private organization (and not by joining the military to make a difference), and you decide to take some pictures for X929.. and get kidnapped.. don’t expect us to pay for it. : )
roger
on Jun 22nd, 2009
@ 2:42 pm:
Tony…
We don’t have a right to political apathy because our military fought to defend it. We have our right to political opinion because the English and French fought to install it. They fought each other, the colonial Americans. That was well before we were Canada. Canada hasn’t ever been invaded. The military here hasn’t “fought to defend” anything for YOU. They’ve fought to protect and defend freedom for other countries when it was the right thing to do; to thwart oppressors. This is why I say Canada needs to be invaded before we really get it. Until we get it, we’ll largely adhere to the idea that Prime Ministers who squander billions of tax dollars that should be funding social programs, Prime Ministers who do back room cash deals with arms dealers, and Prime Ministers who establish off-shore companies to avoid paying taxes are all acceptable.
Iran’s politics and Canada’s politics, though different, have common threads; our governments are chosen by the people, for one. Many Iranians believe this right has been stripped of them and they are protesting it. If this happened in Canada, would we do the same? Or are you saying that the problems of Canada aren’t as urgent because we don’t have a radical Islamic styled brutality to compliment our Parliament?
The violence in Iran is BECAUSE of a regime of corruption. When this level of corruption happens in Western gov’t, we wait for a movie to come out about it to spark the conversation.
Tony
on Jun 22nd, 2009
@ 3:31 pm:
Roger,
To say that, “We don’t have a right to political apathy because our military fought to defend it.”, is comical, and ignorant. World war two is a large part of why we still have the freedoms we have. Both in Canada and the US we owe it to our ancestors, and including the french/english wars. Hence Remembrance day.
What I’m saying to you is, basically, stop telling us we’re ignorant to our own political interests, unless you’re prepared to actually do something about it. It’s easy to sit back and whine pointing the finger. DO SOMETHING. Present an issue of ours that we’re ignoring..
I don’t know anyone who doesn’t talk about todays issues in Canada, however since our issues aren’t, -”is the new dictator going to let us beat our women.. ” -I think Canadians enjoy the way they can ponder issues from afar. It sure beats running through the streets dodging bullets.
Whose arguing about why Iran is the way it is? Not me in my response to you.
“I’m not convinced that the detached West gets it or cares”
What aren’t we getting?
I’m telling you, instead of wasting your time writing this article, why not write about what we should be doing, and provide the info, or let us know what YOU”RE doing about it. If you’re not doing anything about it, go and do it and stop whining about no one doing anything. Either you’re doing something about it, enjoying the freedom your ancestors gave you , or you’re quite simply whining and pointing the finger, like in this article.. I prefer the first two myself..
roger
on Jun 22nd, 2009
@ 5:46 pm:
Addressing your first line… when did our military fight to defend our right to political apathy? Was that WWII? Or was that war Canada defending Canadian values abroad while liberating Europe from tyranical oppression?
Thank you for telling me what to do or what not to do. Sadly, all I’m willing to do is dedicate some of my time to leading a discussion about this issue which hundreds of people are taking part in on a weekly basis. To say I’m doing nothing but whining about it is selling yourself short.
Dugie
on Jun 22nd, 2009
@ 6:58 pm:
I hate to say it but Tony does have a point or two. To say that the west is detached, doesn’t get it, or doesn’t care about what’s happening is a bit over the top. One of the greatest/worst things about being human is empathy.
In my personal opinion this is something the Iranians have to overcome by themselves. Too many times in the past has the west tried to intervene in the problems of other nations and every time it has back fired. We should offer aid and refuge but beyond that this is a civil war and we should keep our distance, unless of course the government starts committing genocide. Then we should role in with everything we have… it’s a fine line.
roger
on Jun 23rd, 2009
@ 7:18 am:
Dugie…
“Too many times in the past has the west tried to intervene in the problems of other nations and every time it has back fired.” I’d say the West intervening in WWI and WWII didn’t really backfire. The suggestion that the catalyst for intervention should be human atrocity interests me. I’m suggesting that body count shouldn’t be our primary motivator when it comes to intervention.
Tony
on Jun 23rd, 2009
@ 8:32 am:
Roger, while working full time, and running my business on the side, I also spent two years convincing 10000’s of Americans that the Iraq war was a waste of time, and they’d better not re-elect the same gov. I received numerous death threats, argued immensely with soldiers in the field, and delivered a batter-ram of facts anywhere from American history in the global scene, to the entire structure of their economic system. I also urged people to prepare for this recession long before it came around. I made numerous blogs and websites to help convince very many of them it was time for a change. Better than if I can simply add my 1 vote (if I were American), I spent 2 years writing 1000’s of articles on the same topic, trying to argue my opinion and providing a bombardment of facts in order to persuade as many Americans as much as I could. Thats doing something about it. If Canadians are too apathetic when it comes to our political system, DO something about it.
Writing an article about HOW specifically the west can do more, would be doing something. Writing an article just telling westerners they aren’t doing enough without any facts, and adding a gruesomely gratuitous video of young girl dying is nothing more than sensationalized whining, but more importantly, is ineffective to solving the problem of what you’re actually writing about.
However as you said, sadly though, you only have time to write this kind of article, to “hundreds” of people..
I’m interested in what you have to say Roger, but I’m trying to challenge you to do more..
Dugie
on Jun 23rd, 2009
@ 7:11 pm:
I would argue that the west didn’t intervene in WWI/WWII but rather we joined another group of likeminded nations that where under attack. What we have here is civil war, we can’t go marching in and tell them who is right and who is wrong, that is something a nation needs to figure out for itself. Genocide on the other hand is a crime against humanity, and IMO is grounds for all out war against another nation.
roger
on Jun 23rd, 2009
@ 7:44 pm:
Dugie…
I would argue that the West did intervene when, in 1939, Britain declared war on Germany. Also, Iran is not in the throes of civil war. Many Iranians are protesting a corrupt regime.
Lucky Boat Guy
on Jun 23rd, 2009
@ 8:08 pm:
It’s tough to expect people to mobilize and ‘walk the walk’ when our western leaders have failed to take a position on the issue. Western apathy and ignorance is contagious, and it starts with our elected officials.
Dugie
on Jul 3rd, 2009
@ 8:50 pm:
Roger,
Wait, Iran invaded another country and I missed it?
Civil war takes many forms, it’s also very hard to declare when you’re on the side that doesn’t have the guns. But you are correct, until the “people” start killing, it would be hard to classify it as such.
LBG, contrary to popular opinion the world doesn’t revolve around what position the western leaders take. If anything, I think it’s the international corporations that have that kind of influence.